Comments on: American Airlines CEO Puts Boeing On Blast: Hasn’t Delivered “For A Number Of Years”

By: Tyrone G

Tyrone G — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 18:03:32 +0000

Joanie Adams – it is not out of the question to manufacture aircraft in the USA, Boeing, Airbus, Gulfstream, Cessna, and Cirrus all do that. Outsourcing happens for several reasons;
1) Placing content in nations that are major customers so that nations airlines buy from you (why Boeing has substantial souring to Japan)
2) The best operation for making a component is not here, and that company wont come to the USA (think German suppliers)
3) Cost

The issue isn’t the outsourcing per se, but managing a complex supply chain is a unique skill, automakers excel at it and Boeing thougth it was easy, it’s not. Keep in mind that Spirit Aero Systems was Boeing, until Boeing spun it off. And just as GM and Ford learned in the Delphi and Visteon spin-offs the parent company doesnt actually have the skills to repalce the spin offs with other suppliers, and once those units have their own Profit Margins to manage it’s even harder.

By: joanie adams

joanie adams — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 15:42:31 +0000

I sorta figured none of you “know-it-alls would answer my question.

By: Tim Dunn

Tim Dunn — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 14:07:34 +0000

Joseph,
AA even pre-merger split Airbus and Boeing orders including for the A300 vs the B767. AA has long tried to play both sides of the Atlantic.
Airbus saw an opening w/ US just as it did with NW and Eastern in supplying what was the “lower tier” carriers while AA, DL and UA were largely loyal to Boeing.
Post megamerger cycle, AA and DL bought more Airbus than Boeing but only recently both swung predominantly Airbus
Let’s not forget that Delta has repeatedly asked Boeing to build an all-new aircraft that would replace the 757 and 767 and even Boeing’s original proposals included trying to make a new aircraft go all the way from being a narrowbody to a small widebody.
On the heels of the problems w/ the 787 and the development of the MAX, Delta switched its orders exclusively to Airbus for almost two decades minus the 737-900ER order which was really a cleanup order to get the ex-NW 787 order off DL’s books.
AA bought Airbus aircraft that were heavily proven while DL jumped in fairly early on the A350, pushed the A330NEO, bought 150 or so end of production line A321CEOs, and then a similar amount of A321NEOs. The A220 was really a Bombardier product but DL will have similarly sized fleets of 737-900ERs, A321CEOs, A321NEOs, and A220s. They recently ordered the MAX10 but mostly so they could get the engine maintenance contract on the LEAP engines which power the MAX – which they have for every other aircraft DL has on order.
AA was the largest Airbus operator in the world but DL has taken that title. in just a few months with its next A350/330NEO deliveries, DL will also take the title of largest operator of Airbus widebodies (a title Emirates holds with its A380 fleet), and the A350-1000 order ensures DL will hold that title for most of the rest of the decade if not longer.

AA, DL and UA were all loyal to Boeing and had most favored nation contracts w/ Boeing until the US government said those contracts were illegal as part of the Boeing-McDonnell Douglas merger.

By: Conor

Conor — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 10:11:18 +0000

I’m surprised United’s Scott Kirby is concerned about aircraft safety and not asking how diverse the production crew was.

By: Joseph

Joseph — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 05:29:44 +0000

AA is an Airbus operator because USAir was an Airbus operator. They’ll big order was essentially an order of as much Airbus as AA could strategically or delivery wise could order, then AA bought Boeing second. I strongly prefer Airbus aircraft. I would rather fly in an old beaten up A320 than a “new” 737 on AA.

By: Tym Dunn

Tym Dunn — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 04:26:51 +0000

I would also like to apologize for being an insufferable know it all, blowhard.

By: Tim Dunn

Tim Dunn — Sun, 28 Jan 2024 00:24:30 +0000

Gary
thank you and I do apologize for not acknowledging that your source was AA exec comments to employees which you frequently do have access to.
I appreciate that you share that info under your real name and not the made-up names that some of your sources use.
but I’m not a fan of anonymous opinions either.

carleton,
yes, AA, not WN was the big driver that pushed Boeing to develop the MAX. Supposedly a combination of AA’s need for lots of aircraft at reasonable prices fairly quickly and Airbus’ development of the A320NEO family.
you do have to wonder at what point Boeing will build an all-new aircraft but they have said – and it is accurate -that there is not a big enough technology jump to justify building an all-new narrowbody right now.
That principle is precisely why DL bought a bunch of end of production line A321CEOs and B737-900ERs at substantial discounts compared to the NEO and MAX. and the CEO and NG are proven and the bugs have generally been worked out. and then they doubled down during covid by buying 3 dozen or so ex-Lion Air 900ERs.
Not only is the A220 the most modern and comfortable narrowbody but Airbus has the potential to kill the MAX and the A320NEO if a further stretch of the A220 is built and produced in large enough quantities.

By: carletonm

carletonm — Sat, 27 Jan 2024 23:58:58 +0000

If I remember right, it was American’s huge A319neo and A321neo order a decade ago that spooked Boeing into making the MAX with its huge and more efficient engines that didn’t fit under the wing.

By: joanie adams

joanie adams — Sat, 27 Jan 2024 23:35:58 +0000

Someone educate me on why manufacturing and industrialization for our aircraft is out of the question in America. Seems like outsourcing is a huge mistake for OUR fleets.

By: Gary Leff

Gary Leff — Sat, 27 Jan 2024 23:33:45 +0000

In reply to Tim Dunn.

@Tim Dunn – “I clicked on your link and you simply use an AA exec confab with employees as your source.”

You said earnings call. I wrote about something nobody else had written about, and it wasn’t yet public. Apology accepted.